David Waranch (00:22):
Welcome again to the Authentic Dad Dodcast. It’s David Waranch. Thank you all for joining me, reach me at furthur.coach of furthurcoach.com As well. That’s F U R T H U R Instagram. Uh, furthur_coaching, uh, TikTok for the coaching. And I’d love to hear from you reach out, email me feedback, maybe, you know, a guest, maybe you want to be a guest. Um, I also do a free 30 minute phone consult for fathers or non fathers who want coaching, who are passionate about the things we talk about on the podcast, whether it’s more presence with your children, your partner, yourself, and kind of want to step it up a notch and flourish in the world and want someone to guide and facilitate them to do that. I am a certified professional coach today. I have Manca Klinar and she’s awesome. We talk about the highly sensitive person. She coaches, people who are quote, highly sensitive concept that has been around for a little while.
David Waranch (01:23):
I’m going by Elaine Aron. A lot of research on this that says about 15 to 20% of the population has this trait, um, which can be a gift. But as we talk about, sometimes this trait can be challenging. So if you are a highly sensitive person or know somebody, or maybe you have an inclination that you are one stick around, I think you’ll get a lot out of this. I look forward to connecting with you all. Please consider subscribing giving a five star review as always, and we’ll see you on the other side.
New Speaker (01:53):
So I am here with Manca Klinar, and she is an intuitive, curious HSP, which stands for highly sensitive person, dedicated to empowering highly sensitive individuals. She’s an avid believer in a holistic approach to life and uses education and exploration to expand awareness in her work as a certified whole person, life coach, she combines experience and knowledge about high sensitivity, energy work and learning from various other fields of interests. She is determined to help fellow HSPs reclaim their power. She loves movement, nature, quiet and solitude. Preferably altogether, Monza. Thank you so much for talking to me today.
Manca Klinar (02:37):
Hi David. Hi everyone. Thank you for inviting me and for this initiative, spread awareness about high sensitivity.
David Waranch (02:47):
It is my pleasure and you are coming live or not live for them, but live for me. Wouldn’t Slovenia.
Manca Klinar (02:54):
Yeah. Loving. Yeah. Awesome.
David Waranch (02:56):
Awesome. And it’s what six, five or six hours ahead. Six
Manca Klinar (03:00):
Hours ahead. Yeah.
David Waranch (03:02):
Awesome. So you’re a coach and you specialize in what is called HSPs highly sensitive people. Is that, um, let’s can you, can you define that? What does that mean for people who’ve never heard of the term HSP?
Manca Klinar (03:18):
It is high sensitivity. It is a normal personality trait and the term was founded or established by Elaine Aron. She is a psychologist and researcher and she started doing the research or about high sensitivity. The scientific term is sensory processing sensitivity. And as I mentioned, it’s a normal trait I want to
David Waranch (03:55):
Yeah, meaning it has been said about 15 to 20% of the population. That, is that what you mean by that?
Manca Klinar (04:00):
Yeah. I mean by no, but by normal, I mean, it’s just a trait. It’s not a disorder, it’s not a disease. It does not have symptoms. It has characteristics. It’s not, um, HDD ACDB, it’s not autism, it’s not sensory processing disorder. None of this is just a trend.
David Waranch (04:30):
Yeah. It’s, you’re not, it’s not diagnosis. Like I totally understand. Yeah. So, um, can you, we’ll talk about how you landed doing that, but give me a little taste of like some characteristics of the highly sensitive person.
Manca Klinar (04:46):
Yeah. Gladly. So it’s according to Dr. Elaine Aron trait is in a person who exhibits four characteristics and all four. So the characteristics are the depth of processing being easily overwhelmed, overstimulated over aroused, overwhelmed, emotional reactivity, and empathy, enhanced and sensitivity to subtleties. She created an acronym D O E S to be easily remembered E S T and the foundation of this trait is the depth of processing it has to do with the brain, the brain process, everything more thoroughly, more deeply.
David Waranch (05:48):
Okay. Can we, let’s take these one at a time. And if the depth of processing that you say, the brain processes it more, uh, subtly more. Can we give an example of that? Um, let’s say someone who isn’t a HSP versus someone who is not what would be, what would be the difference in the, in the real world?
Manca Klinar (06:08):
We are more reflective. We reflect more on things. We think about things more. And we also think about things more deeply. We have a vivid imagination, we need more information to make decisions, and we want to do it perfectly. We want to do it. It’s like not trial and error way, but do it once and do it good. More that kind of thing.
David Waranch (06:49):
Got it. Yeah, I know that. So, um, there’s maybe a, as you said, a reflection that is more pronounced in someone who has HSPs and someone who doesn’t. So maybe one example, I don’t know if this would be a good example of, um, someone’s having a 50th birthday party. Maybe the HSP thinks like it gives a lot more depth and meaning, like, what does this mean to my life? I’m turning 50 and contemplates death and goes deep and maybe reads a philosophy book where maybe the non HSP’s like yeah, just a birthday party. Is could that be an example of a depth of processing difference?
Manca Klinar (07:28):
Yeah, it’s a great example. And I have one of my own when we, I used to rock climb more and I always have the biggest backpack because I know myself and I was like, Oh, what if it’s cold? I will get this. What if I’m thirsty more? What if I’m hungry more? And I had all those things when my other friends, when my friends did not have those intellectual processes before that.
David Waranch (08:03):
So it shows up, it sounds like it shows up for you and kind of like really being prepared, really having all the details, really making yourself comfortable, whereas maybe someone else would be like, ah, let’s just go rock climbing. We don’t need all that stuff.
Manca Klinar (08:18):
And also every choice is a special chart. Is B uh, important life change or just the flavor of the ice of ice cream.
David Waranch (08:31):
Yeah. Interesting. Okay. And the second one you mentioned was easily overwhelmed. And I would imagine that that is not just emotionally that tell me if that’s, if it’s true. It could also be, sounds, um, changes in weather, which is one that I struggle with. Um, subtle energies in the, um, certain personalities. When you say easily overwhelmed, does that encompass all those different things?
Manca Klinar (09:02):
Yeah. Would you be okay if we go first to the E N S and then return to the O more logical?
David Waranch (09:14):
Yeah. Okay. So, um, so we’ll skip the E let’s go to the L
Manca Klinar (09:19):
Yep. Let’s keep the, Oh, and go to the E. Okay.
David Waranch (09:23):
However you want to do it.
Manca Klinar (09:26):
Okay. The second one, or let’s say the E part has two components. One is stronger emotional reactions, and the second one is stronger empathy. So I would’ve started with stronger emotional reaction. It’s linked to the foundational one, the depth of processing, because we learn if things are important to us. Right? Yup. And remember things. So HSPs process things star only. So they had to, they have to be important and that means more emotions. There are more emotions in the system of highly sensitive person. And when there are emotional reactions with all of this quantity of emotions, they are more intense. It shows like it’s not, it’s not a big deal. Why are you so upset? Or,
David Waranch (10:39):
Yeah, I was just gonna say that, where am I? I, I believe I’m probably an HSP. Um, it all seems to fit. And I think in the past, I’ve read that Aron’s book and taking the quizzes and whatnot it’s been awhile. But yeah, like if something comes up, at least for me at work where someone let’s say is disappointed or has a certain tone, I have this a lot more of a strong reaction than say than someone else you might say, eh, who cares? Like move on. But I am. I kind of exquisitely sense. Um, these, you know, subtle like emotions or reactions or, or disappointments. And it really impacts me. And that’s not not saying that’s always good, but that’s, that’s my nervous system.
Manca Klinar (11:31):
Yeah, exactly. It’s more finally to nervous system. That’s the description. It’s also what you mentioned. It has to do also with the Def depths of processing, because we are more, we are deeper fillers. So we feel the pain of the, and we think about all of that. That’s why boundaries are so important, knowing what you can do about things and not, you don’t stress yourself about things you cannot change.
David Waranch (12:10):
Right? Because I wouldn’t imagine feeling things more deeply and processing things more deeply can be a gift in that you’re paying attention, your understanding. You want to make a difference in the world. And not that people who aren’t HSPs don’t have those things, but that is a gift, but it’s also a burden because if you do not, and we can talk about that, harness that, understand yourself, create boundaries and self care. The world can be a very difficult place. I would imagine for someone like you, maybe like me, maybe someone even more sensitive.
Manca Klinar (12:51):
Yeah. You have to know yourself and adjust your life. So you take a proper care of yourself. You create your own manual and then follow it.
David Waranch (13:04):
Yeah. Well, let’s go through the other two and then I want to hear how you help people deal with this, um, gift and slash difficulty at the same time.
Manca Klinar (13:16):
Yeah. Okay. I would just say for the first one that we are also more conscientious. We spot errors easily. We find patterns. We, we, yeah. And the second component of the E is a stronger empathy. This has to do with mirror neurons. They are more active in highly-sensitive people, mirror neurons are the brain cells that help you help us learn through imitation. When we were kids, we learned like that. So we know what the other people is. The other person is thinking what they are feeling too, to an extent, we even feel that. So this is more hype is heightened in highly sensitive people.
David Waranch (14:10):
Yeah. And I would think that’s an important skill in certain professions and also an occupational hazard. I can understand you, but it’s killing me.
Manca Klinar (14:20):
Yeah. So boundaries are very important. Energetic and emotional. Yeah. So the third one is C F sensitivity to subtleties. So we spot those small things. The majority misses, we, this results in being more stimulated by loud noises. We are, we are more, we don’t like it. Or the bright lights, strong smells, strong state pain. We’re sensitive to pain. We get more out of coffin. We are, yeah. We get more caffeine out of the stronger ethic of coffee.
David Waranch (15:10):
Manca Klinar (15:11):
Oh, the second one or the coffee.
David Waranch (15:13):
Oh, just I’m. I I’m just, uh, I’m a coffee enthusiast and I think coffee is delicious. It feels like it cures depression. It gives me life gives me caffeine. Anyway. That’s a whole nother podcast. Um, yeah. So maybe, maybe it all makes sense. So how does this show up for you? This subtlety, um, in your life?
Manca Klinar (15:37):
Oh, sometimes it’s good, but sometimes it’s not so good because I spot small things. Like someone ignores me, someone. I look, when I talk to someone I see when they are distracted, when I, I hear when they do something else, but not every then, like by evidence like the noise, but from their tone of voice, their energy. And I, there’s a short, uh, haircut. I noticed a slight smell.
David Waranch (16:17):
That is so interesting. Cause I tend to notice haircuts for some reason in both men and women. And that’s weird, that’s a trait. There’s something I always notice when people get a haircut. I just always thought it was just like a weird thing. I didn’t know that it was, I didn’t know that that was connected to a sensitivity. That’s fine.
Manca Klinar (16:39):
I think it’s also, sorry. I think it’s also connected to being visual. Are you a visual type of person?
David Waranch (16:46):
Manca Klinar (16:47):
Yeah, probably it just occurred to me. You probably remember how they look and then you for the small differences and because the brain takes this deeper and processes deep, more deeply, it stays there and you just bring it up the next time you see a person.
David Waranch (17:12):
Wow. Yeah. I’m just thinking back to when I’m, when I was in school and when I’d be taking a test, I literally could, when I was taking the test could see my notes in my head while I was taking the test. So I could see the answer because I could visualize what my notes, you know, I didn’t have the notes in front of me, but I remember exactly what isn’t that weird. Yeah. I guess I’m very visual. I could, I could literally see the notes say, Oh, I can see that. I know what the notes said. So there’s the answer.
Manca Klinar (17:41):
Oh, you’re the lack of one. When I did that, I remember which color it was highlighted with. I could remember where on the page it was, but I couldn’t remember what,
David Waranch (17:55):
Okay. Yeah, no, I can actually see my weird scribbled handwriting and what it said. Not always, but you know, I studied it, but I had this picture of what it looked like on the page. Um, all right. So there’s one more.
Manca Klinar (18:09):
I would like to mention something else here. Yeah, it has to do with the first one again, but they are so intertwined.
David Waranch (18:18):
Yeah. It sounds like they’re, they’re all interacting with each other.
Manca Klinar (18:22):
It sometimes seems that highly sensitive people are indecisive. They are not really, or not always because they need more information and more time to process all of this. It also seems like they are more cautious, which they are. Yeah. But when there is a new situation, it takes longer for them to process it. But when this or a similar situation comes, they are way faster than the majority to act in the new situation. Because the last one is DP process. And when, when they spot it’s similar, they just bring up that data and they can make a decision or do
David Waranch (19:24):
Something like pattern recognition.
Manca Klinar (19:26):
Yeah. Something like that. Yeah.
David Waranch (19:28):
You see like a similar pattern. They can recognize it. But if it’s something completely new, there’s a little more cautiousness. I don’t know if it’s true. I would think, I don’t know if maybe there’s a little bit of fear. Like, I don’t know if I want to do that because that could overwhelm me or something. Something like that.
Manca Klinar (19:47):
It’s my beat. But they say we have a pause to check system. Like first when something new happens or when there is a new situation that happens in children as well, when they, I will, I will use this example. When a child comes into a new plate, playroom, a highly sensitive child will stand by the door and observe first if he or she says, is it the state? It is the safe situation. They will proceed. They will approach the children or whatever it’s in there. But if not, they will stay behind because it’s a survival strategy.
David Waranch (20:38):
Yeah. No, I’m thinking like you see those kids that are just jump right in. No problem. There you go. Like it’s nobody’s business and the other kids are kind of staring in the corner and you’re like, what’s wrong? Is my kid shy? Are they not social? And, and it could be, that is exactly what you’re saying. Yeah. Something to keep in mind,
Manca Klinar (20:57):
They are labeled as shy or teammate or a mother once told me that they told Carr child that she does not know how to play, but she was just highly sensitive. So it’s all those labels.
David Waranch (21:18):
Um, well, that’s good to recognize I have children. Um, and to, yeah, I don’t know. I’d have to, I think that kind of explains, uh, some of their, some of their behaviors, some of their traits, especially when they were younger. Um, yeah. Did we, um,
Manca Klinar (21:37):
We’ve been, we came to S okay, so now it’s more logical to return to the, Oh, so we, I would describe it like this majority of people is like R like a radio station that can play, or I don’t know, what’s the word, 25 frequency. It can catch 25 frequency. Y HSPs are a radius, a radio transmitter or whatever that catches 100. Oh, really? So that’s a lot of information. It has to be deep. They have to be deeply process. So we tell a lot of work, it’s more stimulation then the, then majority of the population. So it’s the overstimulation or over arousal comes sooner comparing to the majority. And if this stimulation is too much at once to bigger stimulation at once, I’m not good with words today. If it’s not that much stimulation, but it lasts too long, there comes overwhelmed when there’s no way out to just want to shut down. You don’t want to even.
David Waranch (23:19):
Yeah. So, so, so it’s, um, the, the, um, the F the, the frequency, like this thing, this thing, this thing, this thing, uh, all at once, or it’s the length, which probably feels too intense after awhile. So if it’s not the quantity, it’s this long-term length of stimulation that feels intense. Whereas the norm that the normal, the non HSP, it doesn’t, it’s not a thing. Cause I, I, I take a lot of naps because I just, I need to shut down my whole system. Cause it feels like, and nowadays with the phones and the 24 hour news cycle and this and this and this and this and this and this, the world, even if you’re not an HSP, just seems just like a place that’s that there’s constant never-ending stimulation, which is probably increasingly hard for someone who has trouble with that.
Manca Klinar (24:20):
Yeah. Especially the outside noise or inside noise and electromagnetic stimulation. It’s also, we are sensitive to all of that, to all the noises. We take everything in. We, we cannot say this is not important. Let’s say if we would be talking in a cafeteria and there will be people around us, I would hear their conversation. And I could, I would have traveled focused on you. And after awhile I would become over aroused. And if I would not stop this stimulation, I would say, I cannot do it no more. And I would just shut down.
David Waranch (25:07):
So quiet spaces are very important to you.
Manca Klinar (25:10):
Yeah. Quiet spaces. And there’s something else that’s important for all of it. For all us anxious, peace pauses, taking pauses and taking breaks. And having, at least they say at least two hours during the day to give the nervous system a break from stimulation from other people to be able to rejuvenate as fresh. It can, it does not have to be two hour block. The best is a breaks throughout the day. So your naps are personal
David Waranch (25:51):
Little resets throughout the day. Um, yeah. No, I think that’s really great advice. So when someone comes to you as a coach, are they coming to you and saying, look, I’m a highly sensitive person and I’d like some coaching or are they just coming for coaching? And then you later identify them as that or, or both like, how does that, how does that happen? Are they, are they like self-identifying or, or do you sort of talk to them and say, Oh, I think you might be, this does this resonate
Manca Klinar (26:27):
It’s happened twice that I pointed out the possibility, but otherwise they know they are HSPs and they want to learn themselves better, understand themselves better and adjust their lives. Yeah. Support.
David Waranch (26:46):
They’ve probably read Elaine Aron’s book or done some research and then they, and then they stumble upon you. Cause that’s what you do. Um, let’s talk about how you got into that. And then I want to know how you help people who are struggling. So how, how did you decide to, to specialize in this? I know we have, I know you’re in Slovenia, but we have, we have a little bit of a similar professional background.
Manca Klinar (27:12):
Yeah. I studied law and I worked at the court of law. I left the job twice first time. I wasn’t sure. And I started missing the intellectual work. I started missing writing all those decisions and this was the part that I meant, but it became to the immunity.
David Waranch (27:42):
So are you saying law is not sensitive to the highly sensitive person and being sarcastic, like you’re saying the court, the courtroom and in the legal system, isn’t a compatible with your traits of sensitivity
Manca Klinar (27:59):
LA originally. And she story CLI is for highly sensitive because we have high standards. We have, we are inherently bound by morality, by ethics, all of that. But according to Dr. Elaine Aron, we through history, lost our roles as priestly advisors. And when non, I just be individuals, God, that roles, the standards changed. So for me, it’s we had all those. You had to be fast. You had to do things like if you work on the, behind the conveyor belt, like doing things.
David Waranch (29:05):
Yeah. No, I know exactly what you’re saying. Like in theory, someone working in the legal system would be who’s highly sensitive. It would be a perfect fit, but there’s, there’s unfortunately like a bureaucracy that has been created that now makes it maybe not a good fit. And I think that is probably true in the U S as well. Um, I am very much engaged in the practice of law and the traits of what you’re describing are very, very important. However, there is a system which makes it really challenging, you know, the, the, the, the pace, the stress, the sort of, um, adverse adversity that can happen. Yeah. And so I, I, so, so you were doing that and then decided you need something else. Yeah.
Manca Klinar (29:59):
But the first time I left this, it was mostly due to I did. I worked at the executions. So there was limited space that I could be the justice. So I, I remember I listened to a woman. I believed her, but I could not rule otherwise to pay, but I believe her, she did not have the power, but the law said, if you don’t, but theoretically and formally, you had all the power, you need it, but you didn’t act. So that was the big, I could not do that anymore. So that led me somewhere else. And after the second time, my body said no, because I couldn’t focus anymore. So after that, I went on a deep inner journey and I did not know what I will do. I just knew law and court of law is not a choice for me.
David Waranch (31:18):
He didn’t know where I was going to take it
Manca Klinar (31:20):
Know. And I, after I read Elena Aaron’s book, the highly sensitive person, I was like, wow, I’m not flawed. There’s nothing wrong with me. There are people like me, I have to spread the word. And then I was thinking, what, how could I do that? And on her page, I, I saw you can get sort of approved by her. If you do us, if you are a coach certified by international coach Federation, or you are certified by us coaching school, that is ICF approved. So I found our mutual coaching school and yeah, I went from there. Yeah. And here I am.
David Waranch (32:13):
All right. So somebody, I also, and we’ll talk about, um, you did mention children. I want to talk about that a little bit later, because this is the authentic dad podcast. And hopefully people are listening. I have kids and wondering, what do I do if I have a kid who might be really sensitive, how do I do that? Let’s start with adults first. They come to you. They find you say, I’m that I read Elena Aaron’s book. I’m struggling with all the things that you described. Like, um, how do you help them?
Manca Klinar (32:46):
We first go through their life, how their life is looking right now. Then we can see the relations of the certain parts areas of their lives. And I asked questions that have to do with high sensitivity if they don’t give me information about that, and then depends on what they want to prioritize. Our work depends on their goals and wishes. We then proceed. But I, I always say you have to cultivate your inner relationship. You have to first be okay with who you are in the way you are. And you start doing that by taking care of yourself and taking care of your needs. You have to, in order to do that, you have to know yourself, right? How high sensitivity is showing in you in your life and then what to do to support it.
David Waranch (34:01):
Yeah. So let’s first get a map. What’s everything look like, let’s see how this is actually showing up. Once we have that, then we can work on what to do about it. So let’s say there’s a guy. He comes in and he says, man, I’m a lawyer. I get so overwhelmed. Every day I go to court, I got kids, I got a wife and I’m just wiped out. Um, need a nap, some drinking, a lot of coffee. I’m just always overwhelmed by like the daily of life. Like, what are some strategies, self care boundaries, simple things that I can do to help myself. I mean, you mentioned, um, one of the things is these sort of daily check-ins, um, or, uh, sort of moments of solitude and, um, anything else come to mind besides
Manca Klinar (34:56):
There’s a lot, I will not ask you questions because we are not in the coaching session. It’s just hypothetical. Yeah, well, yeah. In the hypothetical world. Um, but I would ask you questions about how does your day look like where are the openings to do something about it, but important things sleep. As I mentioned, daily break times of solid to the silence and quiet and no people around because their nervous system co-regulate with another person and energy. So without this,
David Waranch (35:44):
Or, or maybe certain energies and certain people,
Manca Klinar (35:49):
Oh yeah, there’s an energies can bring you down.
David Waranch (35:56):
It sounds like all of the things that we already know, but for someone who has a highly sensitive person, you really have to be intentional and conscious and actually build in to your life and maybe go to someone like you, who can support you to do that. Um, because that could make, I mean, just a massive difference between burnout and overwhelm or really performing at a super high level.
Manca Klinar (36:23):
Yeah. And it’s crucial to know the state you are in. So be connected to your body, to your let’s say battery level, to the amount of stimulation you are in and to pay attention to what your day was so far, how many breaks I’m just talking you, but the person talking about,
David Waranch (36:50):
Do you, do you have any quarters, meditation, yoga, any other specific practices that you think are helpful to check in with your body,
Manca Klinar (37:00):
Body scan through the body? And when you get used to it, you do it. You don’t need a special blocked out time to do it, but you are aware of the state, your body is in and your brain and you pay more attention to yourself, to your system.
David Waranch (37:23):
And I, and I couldn’t agree with you more on that. And it’s something I practice regularly. And it also sort of commands your mind to focus on your hands, your feet, whatever you’re scanning versus all of the frazzle that’s happening in the moment. Um, you’re putting your energy towards something really specific and then it, and then it really calms your nervous system. And also lets you tune in to what’s to what’s actually happening. So, and it’s really simple. I mean, you can do it almost anywhere. You can take a little as a minute or two. I think it’s, it’s one of those things I really recommend. So I’m glad you brought that up
Manca Klinar (37:59):
And there’s something else. When we close our eyes, we’ve blocked 80% of simulation. When we put our fingers into our ears, we block another important quantity of information. So if nothing else is possible, we can do that.
David Waranch (38:20):
Yeah. I, I often prefer talking on the phone versus doing a zoom call because the visual is distracting, even though visual, it’s distracting for me to kind of tune in to what’s happening in the conversation. Um, so I’m, I’m, I’m usually a phone person versus a zoom person. Cause I, cause I’m sort of looking at myself in the video and that’s distracting and I try to look at the other person in, in, in, in the eye, but there’s still a component of, of, of like my attention is not as what it could be. Unless in any case you could close your eyes on the zoom and look weird and meetings or something.
Manca Klinar (39:03):
Yeah. But it’s wears you off. Yeah. So it’s great. I would like to do something. I would like to invite our listeners to close their eyes and maybe just focus on their body and the connection their body makes with the ground they are on and really feel that connection as long as you’re not driving. Oh yeah, of course. I forgot that.
David Waranch (39:32):
No, no, no. I just, I’m sure. I’m sure people wouldn’t do that anyway. Yeah. Okay. So go ahead.
Manca Klinar (39:38):
Yeah. Grounding is very important and it brings us into the body. So doing breaks like this can have a very big impact and doing grounding regularly day, couple of times a day can also have a great effect.
David Waranch (40:04):
I was just saying, cause our days can be so busy and overwhelming that you don’t even know what’s happening in the body because you’re so disconnected because you’re too busy doing all of these other things. And just that two minutes can bring you back.
Manca Klinar (40:19):
Yeah, we are living above our neck. So we don’t know what’s going on below our neck.
David Waranch (40:27):
And that’s a really good transition because I was over eavesdropping on my nine-year-old daughter’s she had a zoom call or is it within class? You know, they’re in school. And I think the guidance counselor was meeting with the class and she was doing all of this mindfulness, um, exercises and training, which was so nice to hear that mindfulness and grounded-ness and has kind of seeped into, you know, mainstream society and schools. So tell me, just, let’s do a few, little bit about children. You mentioned maybe at a party if they’re, you know, not as fully engaged right away. That could be a sign. What are the signs for children that are HSPs and how would, how would we engage as a parent with them?
Manca Klinar (41:19):
Yeah. Okay. Thanks for reading
David Waranch (41:22):
A lot in one question, but
Manca Klinar (41:24):
Yeah, well I have a lot to say, but I will just say this. I will start with this highly sensitive children are very fragile. I, we use this word because high sensitivity makes us take out of everything. We got more. So if we have a good childhood, we were prosper more compared to people who are not highly sensitive and had similar situations. This is called yeah. This is called vantage vantage sensitivity. Okay. And if we have a bad childhood or not good enough childhood, we will suffer more compared to a person who is not highly. So,
David Waranch (42:17):
Okay. Okay. So an HSP child who has the so-called good childhood will thrive more than a non HSP and vice versa will do a lot worse if they have a, so-called not good childhood than a non HSB. That’s very interesting.
Manca Klinar (42:33):
Yeah. Irish research showed that and this is why I’m so passionate about bringing the word about high sensitivity and highly sensitive children out because highly sensitive children need more support during their first years, they have to learn how to monitor their batteries, their energy supply, how to manage emotions, how to be okay with who they are because we grew up feeling there’s something wrong with us. No one knew what’s high sensitivity. People were so busy, surviving and being tough to be able to survive weird. We, we were too sensitive.
David Waranch (43:25):
It’s probably worth noting that surviving, um, can manifest probably in some dark ways. Right? Um, overeating alcohol abuse. I would imagine it could go sideways and look, I feel like and cause I’m so overstimulated. I don’t know what to do. I need something to numb myself out. So I would imagine that as a person gets older, the survival mechanisms, isn’t always healthy.
Manca Klinar (43:48):
Yeah. Great. That you brought that up. It’s I call this self-medicating you’ll numb yourself because it’s too painful, too uncomfortable. And this is why we tend to prefer living above the neck and disconnecting from what’s below it. So for children, the most important thing is to acknowledge their experience, to believe the child, whatever they are experiencing is true for them. And to attune to them, to their emotional needs. And attuned parents will know when they are manipulating as children do. And when they are really experiencing something,
David Waranch (44:43):
Right, don’t dismiss their feelings. And if your present you’ll know when your child is experiencing painful emotions or trying to manipulate,
Manca Klinar (44:53):
Yes, it accepts their experience because it is their own, however, unknown to a parent, it might be or comprehensible. And it’s, it’s not very easy for parents who are not highly sensitive to accept that. Especially non-highly sensitive father, highly sensitive son, that the toughest thing to understand, I think I would say,
David Waranch (45:29):
Yeah, well, yeah. Cause then you have all that sort of manly masculine stereotypes. Why are you so sensitive son? Yeah. I can totally see that. Hopefully hopefully not as much as it used to be. Hopefully things are changing, but I could totally see like, like an old school dad, you know, sensitive son. Yeah.
Manca Klinar (45:49):
I’m an old school dad who had to be old school, but was in fact highly sensitive could be even worse because he would want to prevent his son’s trouble the way he had trouble and had to disguise his sensitivity and would want to toughen his son even more.
David Waranch (46:13):
Right. Right. So, so projecting all of his yeah. His stuff onto, onto the kid. Yeah. Yeah. Almost like almost, almost like a closeted HSP. He doesn’t want it. I want to fully accept themselves.
Manca Klinar (46:27):
And that’s another thing I would like to mention with children, this sibling, if they do something wrong, don’t punish them. Try to discipline them, try to find a, not so strict measure as the land Aaron put in the book. If you, if you have highly sensitive children, the listeners I would advise, or I would suggest I would recommend highly sensitive child, the book from Elaine Aron. And if you’re a highly sensitive adult also, because for me, it helped me understand myself more. So she says in the book that punishing a highly sensitive child is like putting a nail into the wall with the, the big Pam or the, we call it Mazzola I don’t know the big hammer instead of the small one. It would be crushing the, the name it’s too much. Yeah. It’s still much so dry. Does it Jen, more gentle the measures and pay attention to the shame, not shaming, what we will, what will people say, look what you did, can’t you do it better? That kind of,
David Waranch (47:52):
Why can’t you be as social or as engaged as all the other kids look at them. What’s wrong with you? What, what, why, why, why are the other kids that are having a problem with that?
Manca Klinar (48:02):
Yeah, because a highly sensitive child will want to do things good will want to do things perfect. And when he does not do that with, he doesn’t manage to do that. He will punish himself first. He doesn’t need the outside punishment in the formal shaming. And there’s another important thing transitions between activities or when they’re something is changing, they need transitions more time to adjust to a new situation. They need Mauler steps. They need slower approach, um, pointing out what is known in a new situation.
David Waranch (48:52):
Yeah. No, yeah. I think, I think one way we’ve, I’ve noticed that yeah, what we’ve done is, or at least I’ve tried to do is set, set context, say, okay, like in an hour, we’re going to do this. Or, and then we’re going to do this and then I’d like you to do this and I’ll give you 30 minutes. Or, and so they have a little bit of like a, like a plan or a context. And I think that kind of helps, you know, instead of, Hey, we’re doing this now without having any warning, that seems to make a big difference. So just a small little tweak.
Manca Klinar (49:25):
Yeah. And there’s something else. I think it’s also important. As we mentioned, high sensitivity and sensitivity to subtleties children really know what is going on inside of parents, what they are feeling. And they will express their parents even more then for children who are not highly sensitive,
David Waranch (49:52):
That is such a great point. Like you think you’re hiding your stress or anxiety and fear, but you’re not, especially the kids. They know, Hey, they can feel it. Especially the sentence of ones. Yeah. It’s a really good point.
Manca Klinar (50:05):
If, if the parent or any other person denies what they are feeling, what they are in fact feeling, or they don’t know what they are feeling and the child would go, but I’m sensing this and this is not true. And this repeats, they might lose touch and the cute become insecure in what they are feeling and not trust their instinct, which is not good.
David Waranch (50:37):
Yeah. No, that’s a really great point. I would imagine the antidote to that would be, you know, in an inappropriate way, sharing your feelings with your kids. Yeah. I’m feeling this way or that way. And you know, in a way that’s age appropriate, however, the kid is, and without getting, you know, not giving away too much information, if it’s not for them to know or whatever’s going on.
Manca Klinar (50:57):
Yeah. And learning them how to Sue they’ll be, I think the most important thing when the there’s a tantrum or emotional outburst or whatever that is for a parent to be a rock, to be calm and like a safe Haven thorough. Yeah. For a child to know, okay, I’m here, he’s he or she is there for the child. And so the child will feel safe to express whatever he or she is feeling because we don’t want them to suppress what they are feeling.
David Waranch (51:42):
We don’t want them growing up, having trouble with their own relationships because they couldn’t have this secure attachment with their, with their primary caregivers. Right. Which is all a whole thing, attachment theory and, and all that. So I think that is a really great overview. There’s probably, you know, 10 more hours we could talk about it. Is there anything else that you think is important that, that we should add before we, before we go? Um,
Manca Klinar (52:15):
Um, I think there’s nothing wrong with high sensitivity learning new information, about high sensitivity, about oneself, getting to know oneself and understand. Yeah. Acceptance is always good. Accept and acknowledge other people they’re experienced and not take things. Personally
David Waranch (52:41):
Sounds like the first step would be recognize if you have some of these traits realize it’s, it’s not a diagnosis it’s normal. These are just traits and then accept those traits and then try to help yourself through someone like you. Where can people find you if they want to learn more about your work, want to hire you as a coach, want to reach out? How can we find you?
Manca Klinar (53:04):
I have a personal website. It’s my name, my full name. So M a N C a K L I N a r.com.
David Waranch (53:21):
Course, we will put that in the show notes. And I think you have an offering that we’ll also put in the notes, a free offering. Tell me about that.
Manca Klinar (53:27):
I share, I have a free gift and it’s in alignment with what I shared getting to know oneself. So it’s a manual for highly sensitive, how to begin. It has a bit of theory what high sensitivity is and what is good to do and my story. And then I have the workbook that helps you explore yourself. And my favorite three things to do
David Waranch (54:00):
All of that is part of the gift.
Manca Klinar (54:02):
Yeah. Two eBooks.
David Waranch (54:04):
That is very generous. Thank you very much. That’s awesome. You’re welcome. My pleasure. This, this was great. I mean, I knew a bit about it, but not, not as, not about some of the stuff we talked about. I think it’s very, very interesting, helpful to me, helpful to people who are, um, I really wanted to get someone like you. I was just sort of came from a conversation. One of my friends who’s reading that book and he’s like, I think I’m this HSP and like, Oh yeah, you probably are. And I, and then it just kind of reignited my interest in all of this. So thank you very much. You’re welcome. Glad you’re doing this. I think it’s important. And um, yeah, I really appreciate your time.
Manca Klinar (54:47):
I’d like to mention one other thing. Yeah. I have a Facebook group called HSP power and I share a lot, a lot of information there. So if someone, if anyone is interested, you’re welcome to join.
David Waranch (55:03):
Okay. HSB power, Facebook group free to join all that kind of stuff is community maybe of HSPs.
Manca Klinar (55:11):
Yeah. Community of HSPs. Although I’m my main focus is sharing information and helping people, not necessarily building a community as the emotional support, more like
David Waranch (55:28):
Yeah. Like a hub for people to learn more. Yeah. Yeah. Well they do, they do it. Right. And
Manca Klinar (55:36):
I pronounce it. Right. Yeah. You’re great.
David Waranch (55:38):
Is a pleasure. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. And it’s probably a dinner time around there. Yeah.
Manca Klinar (55:45):
Six o’clock have a great night. Thank you. Bye.
David Waranch (55:50):
And there you have it. That was my conversation with Manca Klinar. Thank you Manca Klinar. For your time. Really enjoyed it. I hope you all got a lot out of that one. If you’re a highly sensitive person, if you know, one, if you love one, if you’re married to one, if you’re dating one, if your kids are one, their nervous system is different. And 15 to 20% of the population have this trait, which as we’ve said can be a gift. It could also be a real burden if you don’t know how to harness it, right. And the world can be a really difficult place for HSPs.
David Waranch (56:24):
Really sensitive. So I hope if you’re one, if you know someone, you have a little understanding of your nervous system, their nervous system, and you can really thrive in the world with some of the tools that we talked about. Of course, we’ll put her information in the show notes. If you want to learn more. I thank you all for listening. I thank you for your support. And if you think someone would benefit from this, please pass it along and we’ll see you next time. Take care.